There were a couple of people asking about the Eagle Wardens and the 108 Righteous Bandits and where their stories went from here.
The next story arc was going to be the War/Conquest arc, so all of the outfits’ stories would play on that theme somehow.
The Eagle Wardens have always had a need to be diplomatic. They are trying to forge a new future for their people and new relationships with other peoples. They have forged a relationship with the Spiritual Society, a branch of the New Tomorrow Triad, who find the connections between Chinese Taoist spiritualism and the religions of the Maze Indians. As a result, some Chinese joined the tribe, and some Indians embrace the ways of their Eastern brothers and sisters, resulting in Kung Fu becoming a secondary mechanical focus for the EW.
Story-wise, in an effort to be the diplomatic peacemakers, they are grudgingly accepting of the Sloane Gang’s regime and future developments for control of the town that were to spring out of Dr. Blackmore’s work.
Additionally, Sarah Meoquanee becomes an early target for Mason Adler and the T4R Brotherhood. But they discover they bit off a bit more than they can chew with her and she manages to escape the Hunt. Her return then sets the Wardens up to be the ones to oppose T4R in that arc, working behind the scenes to take them down.
On a simpler note, the EW were also going to get Kung Fu as a secondary mechanical focus
The 108 Righteous Bandits would have found themselves becoming the enemies of both the Sloane Gang and Dr. Blackmore efforts. The Sloane Gang, with Mario at the helm, are asserting their power through fear over the people, an idea which goes against the 108’s Robin-Hooding tendencies. Beyond that, Blackmore’s work would have produced another group that made a bid for controlling the town, asserting their superiority as the basis for everyone granting them control. However, the 108 don’t like anyone claiming superiority over others, especially those as soulless as Blackmore and his creations. So they are opposed to even the idea of them and oppose them as well.
Beyond that, the T’ou Chi Chow was going to have sort of an internal dilemma as well. Up until now, a lot of what he’s been doing is just a bunch of fun to him. Sure he’s got his Marxist ideals and a propensity for second chances, but it works for him because he gains a certain level of amusement from it all. However, when Mario proves to be a bit too dangerous for him, the fun level drops off and Chow walks away from their efforts in Gomorra altogether. But he realizes then that the 108 Righteous Bandits have grown into something beyond what even he imagined them to be. So he is then faced with a decision … give up on the grand experiment that is the 108 or rejoin them as an equal, instead of a leader and be a part of that movement.
There was also a sort of side-story planned that sought to develop and utilize the misfit abomination parts of the 108 as a secondary mechanical focus for the outfit. This sub-group was going to find a leader in Malcolm Calhoun (artwork by Larry Wilson for those who’ve been paying attention to his recent work). The misfits were going to find themselves threatened by Adler’s men (who hunt abominations in an effort to add their strength to their own) as well as Lane Healey, who finds himself in a different role in Gomorra once a mysterious new player calls in on his debts.
I’m also curious as to Lula’s fate. You’ve mentioned what was planned for Lillian, and it seems that Dr. Blackmore was going to be the main player from Morgan in the next story arc, so what was going to happen with the company’s new owner?
[quote=“Doomdog, post:42, topic:1236, full:true”]
So, who did Lane owe all that debt to anyway?[/quote]
Good question. Not really going to answer it, though. In part because it’s better for players to wonder and imagine what that might have been. And in part because we never completely developed it. It was in process at the time the game was cancelled.
All I’ll say is that the individual liked blood and did a lot of work at night … and Lane’s involvement with this person was tied to his former life of wearing black and … also working a lot at night.
Well, the plan was never for Lillian to leave or sign the company over to Lula. That was kind of way to give some closure. The idea was for the two of them to remain reluctant partners with Lillian sort of mentoring Lula in many ways as Lillian orchestrated her deals with Mario and the Sloane Gang (as well as presenting Blackmore and his work as the town’s ultimate salvation). Blackmore was going to start as a Morgan character, but in the end, he really shows himself to be on his own. Lillian and Lula were to be the major players for Morgan.
What would have happened with Lula in the long run? Nobody knows … it could have gone any way really, and we were just as excited to see how the story developed as you all in that respect.
I know that’s not terribly exciting … but that’s all I got.
All I can really say is that Tim Meyer, the original story lead for the game, spent a fair amount of time working on her name. Her name was based on the Chinese characters for Kawasaki, which as you may know, is a popular modern motorcycle brand. I’m sure you can see the connection.
She survived the final battles, so there’s no telling really where she might have ended up in the story.
Here’s another interesting question: What was Nicodemus’ goal? He didn’t seem to have any support from the rest of the Whateleys, so he was probably acting on his own, but for what benefit? I don’t think he’d be satisfied with mundane political power…
After the end of Classic, there really aren’t anymore Whateleys. I mean, sure there are Whateleys elsewhere, but the sourcebooks kind of make it clear that their entire identity and purpose was wrapped up in Knicknevin. So when Nicodemus decided he didn’t want to serve the manitou any longer, it caused a “civil war” that ended the lives of just about everyone in the family … including all those of any real influence.
There were some Whateleys in Ghost Creek, but they were just another subordinate branch to the Gomorra family. They were either lost in the Storm or decided to head back East to the remnants of the family there.
So Nicodemus is functionally the sole head of the family and he returned to his original desires … rule Gomorra for himself and live off the fruits of the fear he sows in that place. It’s not until Nic’s cousin, Theo Whateley-Boyer, shows up in Gomorra, that we see that there is more of a family out there than even Nicodemus has considered. It’s certainly not the “empire” it was before, but it’s still family. And Theo calls Nicodemus to assume that role and lead the family once more. It’s then that Nic embraces that sense of loyalty once more and decides to let go of Gomorra in favor of his family united around a common goal and purpose once more. So he falls back on an old plan of the family … Whateley Isle … and he sets the Whateley Estate in Gomorra up as a way-station for members of the family to search them out. When Gomorra is abandoned later, the Manor (and its sole resident) are all that’s left standing.
To be completely honest, I think everyone on the Story Team really wanted to see Nicodemus play a bigger role in Gomorra going forward. However, by the time Doomtown was resurrected, Nicodemus had already been given another role in the story of Deadlands by its creators. We love Deadlands too much to try and mess with that at all. At the same time, Nicodemus was too great to leave out of the game entirely, ESPECIALLY when the decision was made to continue the story in Gomorra where Classic Doomtown left off. So even when Nicodemus shows his face in one of the very first Reloaded fictions (Abram Grothe’s introduction piece), we knew that his days in Gomorra were numbered so that he could move on to fulfill his role in The Flood (an amazing adventure/sourcebook for Deadlands: Reloaded).
Was the whole blowing town up and creating a zombie army Ivor’s plan the whole time it seems kinda… Stupid imo… I was expecting something really disturbing. Specially after reading that dream Morgan had about him draining Gommara spritually
Ivor’s plan was the same as the rest of the Fourth Ring … to destroy Gomorra. That was the mission they were given and that’s what they set out to do. Ivor chose to do it in his own way with his own style, which as a servitor of Pestilence, was through disease.
The entire arc was meant to reflect that in various ways. Ultimately, he would use his disease to infect the entire town slowly and destroy Gomorra that way. The Blighted were remnants of that plan kept around in case he would need them later (or to do with as he pleased once the overall mission was over). The explosives were the mechanism for unleashing the Blighted should the need arise.
At the same time that Ivor was infecting and spreading disease via individuals, he was also metaphorically infecting the town as a whole, like Gomorra itself was also getting sick in a way. Paul Durant actually came up with a lot of the parallels between disease/pestilence and Ivor’s plan …
Not only was Ivor slowly spreading his disease, but he was spreading lies about how to prevent it and cure it. These lies were based on historically false thinking before the advent of modern disease theory. For example, the idea that miasma, or bad air, was the cause of many diseases during the time period gets spread by Odett and the Sanatorium as well as the creation of the quarantine tents.
The Blighted pockets were like “pustules,” filling with decay and disease, and the explosions were his way of “popping” them and allowing the decay to ooze out. The card “Open Wound” was named that way for this reason because after the explosions, they were holes/pockets of infection left behind as an infected wound on the town itself.
The idea that the cure for Ivor’s disease couldn’t be a “cure” in the truest sense was the same way. It ended up being a counter-pathogen … something destructive to the person, but survivable and far MORE destructive to the other disease. Not only did the game’s timeline not really allow for a true “vaccination,” but it was also indicative of the town itself. If Gomorra is viewed as a life in and of itself, then very few, if any of the outfits could be said to have a true healing effect on it. But when they banded together to face a common threat, it could be said that they were far MORE destructive to the thing presenting the clearest danger to Gomorra. So the heroes at the end, though all part of the conflict that tears at Gomorra’s seams, are in essence the “counter-pathogen” that can bring down Ivor. (If that makes sense … I know the metaphor can get a bit lost sometimes.)
The plan was always for the game to go in thematic cycles, which would play out in as many ways as possible. These were some of our attempts to make that work for the Pestilence arc … we were getting ready to dive into the War/Conquest arc when they pulled the plug.
I see so would you mind telling what the initial concept was for the reason Fourth Ring Circus had to destroy Gomarra? Also would if it wasn’t pulled the Fourth Ring be renamed to reflect the fact the leader was killed and a new faction arrived to destroy the town?
Those are secrets that I’m not sure I’m ready to share at this point. Especially because PEG may decide to go in a different direction altogether and I don’t want to try and suggest anything that might interfere with what they’re working on.
However, I will say this … the Fourth Ring is a deceptive name. Does the name simply refer to Ivor’s circus? Or did Ivor name his circus after something else?
Regardless, the next group to fill that spot was released as a new T4R outfit named the “Full Moon Brotherhood.” However, it would be incorrect to assume that this means they ceased to be “The Fourth Ring.”
@Balder I got the hint from all the demons that their from hell. Fourth Ring is the sin of Greed in Dante’s Inferno not sure where that comes in given the plot of FR
I think it might help if you boned up a bit on your Deadlands lore.
The whole thing is steeped in some strange cross between Biblical iconography and that of Native Americans. Dante’s Inferno doesn’t really have anything to do with any of it.
I don’t know anything about Deadlands at all sept the ten chapters from a book I read where Ghostrock is revealed to have some rather supernatural use. I only know Doomtown and I bought just cuz of Ivor really lol
If you can, try to pick up one of the main Deadlands sourcebooks, either the original, aka Classic (my favorite), or Deadlands Reloaded. If you can find it, The Quick and the Dead, is invaluable for story information.
Was wondering about the backstory of a couple characters, if you’re still answering:
Jacqueline Isham, who I’m thinking about using as a minor NPC in a Deadlands game but don’t know anything about beyond “bodyguard” and “possibly British?”
And Mariel Lewis, whose flavor text hints at a really interesting backstory but didn’t really get mentioned anywhere as far as I can tell.
Jacqueline Isham was never an important character; all she was supposed to be was a starting posse bodyguard. She was supposed to evoke Sakuya Izayoi’s pinstripes-and-knives design from “Koumajou Densetsu” but that was it.
Tondzaosha in Mariel Lewis’s flavor text was the “real name” of Chief Pocatello, the actual historical leader of the Shoshone. Pocatello/Tondzaosha was a leader who just wanted all the fighting to stop, and the leadership of the Shoshone in the Deadlands universe have shall we say gone against this position, so Mariel is one of many Shoshone in the Wardens who left due to disagreements over where the tribe was headed. The historical figure Pocatello/Tondzaosha had a daughter named Jeanette Lewis, but he had her when he was very old and she would have been like six years old at the time of the game, so we couldn’t use her; there’s almost no historical information about his family beyond that so we invented Mariel as someone who could be a daughter born earlier due to thie historical differences, or a sister-in-law who loved him, or some other close family member.
Just to add a little bit more information on Mariel … the idea was that she was close to Chief Pocatello when he was alive and really held to his ways and his philosophy. However, she walked away from her tribe (Shoshone) in disgust at their leaders’ new ways following his death. She is combat capable, having learned the guerrilla tactics of her father, but desires peace more than anything. As the Wardens were a new tribe, seeking to forge a new destiny, she felt that was the place where she needed to be.
And I think you see that reflected in her card as well. She is no slouch in combat, but better with influence and has an ability that removes enemies from a shootout before combat begins.
A story in which THAT many characters were central to the plot would be so convoluted that it would actually be an obstacle to player interaction and I doubt anyone would want to be a part of it. I mean every release had about 6000-6700 words worth of fiction attached to it, but introduced a dozen new Dude cards.
That is why we tried to focus on a smaller number of “voice” characters to drive the story.
