What if other factions had dudes with similar cost-stat-text ratios as Randall/Hamshanks?
In short, some mix of subtractive errata with both additive errata and printing new dudes that could facilitate a viable (eg. about 5 influence plus cash) starting posse in-faction?
That might stem the tide some, but the reason why 108 slide is so good is a combination of the crazy efficiency of its influence dudes, and the crazy powerful abilities on those same dudes.
If Randall were just 4 cost 2 influence he’d be a solid efficient influence dude. But then he gets one of the strongest abilities in the entire game tacked onto him because… reasons.
I guess what I’m saying is, while conceding that Randall is perhaps too under-costed or over-statted (however you want to call it - up or down), is that I’d like to see more dudes approaching that value in the other factions. With a splash of Grifters and Drifters to round it out.
I think a decent goal is to allow most factions to run 5 influence while still leaving some starting cash to play cards from their play hand.
From there, if players want to make investments in a certain “phase” of the game, therein lies the strategic variation:
For example: paying extra cash to run fewer influence but extra shooters for the early (domination) game.
For example: paying less cash to run cheaper dudes to set up the (sudden card dump) mid game.
For example: paying extra cash to run higher skilled dudes for the long (super combo) game.
Stuff like that.
Sure. And, I wish there was a way we could “unprint” Jake, and make that work. But, in order to be better than jake faciton options ned to be too good. Jake was a crutch early on that is hurting us now.
Personal opinion of course.
What if Jake were made a Grifter?
Naturally, this couldn’t be done (in my opinion) without also raising the cost-stat value of other dudes, whether by errata or new cards…
But aside from the “that’d make Den of Thieves too powerful” argument (which I actually disagree with to an extent as the “lowball punishment” pool of cards grows), what drawback to this approach might you foresee?
I think we’re more or less at this point now for 5 influence starting posses without running Jake.
Posses below aren’t just pure influence - most factions can fit in a skilled dude or two and a stud or conditional stud.
A few of the options below can save some GR by subbing in Clementine Lepp if desired in place of a 4GR 1 inf dude. All of these lists have no more than 1 upkeep. I’ve assumed you’re running these out of the home with the most starting GR.
With Full Moon Brotherhood in the mix, relying on Jake for your influence has become riskier. The UK Sheriff events that took place post-Blood Moon Rising saw fewer players running him, specifically because of that home. As @Harlath has just posted, there are decent starting posse options for all factions. If we see a few more startable dudes, I think we’ll be good.
I fully agree.
The advent of 1-cost dudes in latter expansions really helps make this possible (as evidenced by your lists - I unofficially consider Willa Mae as a “deputized” Eagle Warden for this very reason!).
There is still design space open for realizing this concept with most or all homes, however.
As much as I love this communal brainstorming, I do hope that the current designers aren’t overly sensitive to the whims of this forum. There has been a lot of good ideas and (I’m sure) invaluable feedback, but it could turn into a quagmire quick if they try to appease too many people. Hopefully they’ve got a good sense of the current environment and a strong vision for where it’s headed, which is more important than anything else.
Most certainly.
Doomtown Reloaded is a damn fine game.
We here are just going over the hundred little nitpicks…
That’s not what I’m saying.
I’m not saying “make it easier to start 4-6 influence”, I’m saying “make it less dangerous to start 3-4 influence”. When you lose the game the first time someone’s CP exceed your Influence, it is too dangerous to start 3-4 Influence. If that has to happen multiple times for you to lose, or if you have to be beaten by a certain margin to lose first turn, or hell if everyone started with free influence that decayed over the first couple turns, then starting 3-4 influence would not be as dangerous.
I dunno. As it is, each doomtown turn can take quite a while, considering how many (subtle) options are available. Even with a 3-4 turn game, mine tend to run an hour+. If we boost starting influence, or insulate low influence posses, we might push average game time into a range unfit for tournaments, etc.
Obviously I’m generalizing, but I think the current cost/benefit analysis of the starting posse is pretty dynamic. I like the fact that a player can win or lose turn one depending on how well they plan and play. The constantly shifting ratio/threat of control to influence is one of Doomtown’s signature qualities, in my mind.
The idea is that you aim for the same amount of gameplay, but with “checkpoints”, not that you just extend the length of the game. You’d have to change other things to make the game work with this system.
That would be a different game
@Rules A small thing I noticed about Unprepared:
In the FAQ v1 (2014-09-08) it received this errata:
Shootout: Choose a dude. Boot that dude and their attached cards. That dude gets –1 bullets and cannot use abilities. Their attached cards lose all traits, abilities, and bullet bonuses.
This wording persisted through FAQs v2, v3, and [v4 (2015-07-01)] (https://www.alderac.com/doomtown/files/2015/07/DoomtownFAQRulings_070315.pdf) and was printed on the card included in Frontier Justice (2015-05-18).
Then in October, Unprepared received an additional errata on the AEG forums, and this wording was included in FAQ v5 (2015-12-10) to address questions about Unprepared with Totems and items equipped in Shootouts after it had been played via Concealed Weapons:
Shootout: Choose a dude. Boot that dude and their attached cards. That dude gets –1 bullets and cannot use their abilities. Their attached cards lose all traits, abilities, and bullet bonuses.
With the release of the Rules Compendium v0.5 (2017-02-21) the wording on Unprepared has been published as its first errata:
Shootout: Choose a dude. Boot that dude and their attached cards. That dude gets –1 bullets and cannot use abilities. Their attached cards lose all traits, abilities, and bullet bonuses.
I was wondering if it could be clarified which errata is the now official one?
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We are planning on putting out updated versions of everything to clean up all the the things that have been brought up!
By that do you mean physical card updates? Cause that would be swell.
He means documents - but don’t think that doesn’t mean we don’t want to do physical card updates. Just gotta find the best way to handle it at this time.
Stretch goals.
We’re hoping to just make them available without having them be stretch goals.