It’s not about “keeping it casual” at all, it’s about an expected level of behaviour from players, which has always been the level i have seen.
Honestly if a major concern for people with this card is that people will use it to ACTUALLY cheat as opposed to illegal hand cheat, then your playgroup has a more serious problem than worrying about how difficult or inconvenient tracking lowball hands might be.
While I agree with what you said in this part, I agree with mplain that tracking one more information is a problem. Also it is not hard to imagine a situation where one of players doesn’t remember himself revealing cheatin’ hand and refuses to discard a card while his (cheatin’) lowball hand was already re-shuffled into a deck.
Well this is a bit far fetched, dont you think? A lot of other card games have the same once-per-turn restriction without tapping/bowing/kneeling/exhausting/using/activating as additional costs to bybass that. You cant expect that everything is handled by the game’s rules. Some things are just the players’ responsibilities.
Yeah, seems to me that a dispute like this really digs at the integrity of the person in the wrong… I would really suggest just trying to move on from whatever happened. Don’t play the blame game- after all it could be an honest mistake- but if it’s the sort of situation that arises multiple times you need to sit down and talk with the player about it. If they’re not admitting to having cheatin’ hands earlier in the turn, then you need to make a system to track it with that player that they can accept (and stop playing with them if they don’t smarten up).
Some things can’t be made sense of easily in a single occurence.
I have to disagree. Tracking the game state is something you have to do in any non-virtual game. There is nothing inherently better or worse with tracking the game state using 3rd party tokens or by physically rotating the cards themselves*.
*Unless you are a complete pauper and can’t even afford a few scraps of paper and a pencil, which will do the trick. If that’s the case I encourage you to spend your money on essential life needs and not card games.
The question is how many things do you have to keep track of. If it’s just a couple cards then yes, you can definitely just keep it in mind for the length of one turn. If it’s every other card in play, up to a point that you need to mark them with counters, then I’d say the game is overloaded with bookkeeping. MtG, Netrunner and Game of Thrones all have some abilities with a “once per turn” restriction written on them, but in Doomtown it’s the rule, not the exception.
I’m not saying that this game is overloaded already, but I’d rather not have more game state information to keep track of with every new expansion released.
[quote=“Darguth, post:25, topic:289”]
Tracking the game state is something you have to do in any non-virtual game. There is nothing inherently better or worse with tracking the game state using 3rd party tokens or by physically rotating the cards themselves*.[/quote]
I’d say that physically rotating the cards is a much much more preferred solution rather that placing markers on them or writing notes with pencil & paper.
[quote=“PaxCecilia, post:24, topic:289”]
Yeah, seems to me that a dispute like this really digs at the integrity of the person in the wrong… I would really suggest just trying to move on from whatever happened.[/quote]
It’s not about people actually abusing mechanics and cheating during play. It’s about new mechanics released that are easy to abuse, or that would easily lead to mistakes, or that require additional effort to be made in order to prevent mistakes and abuse. It’s all this, all that could have easily been avoided.
Ok guys, I’m not going to press this point any further, it’s just a word of caution to the devs.
These two sentences seem to be at odds with one another. If you’re talking about a new mechanic that can be easily abused, or could lead to mistakes, then why not talk about how to resolve people actually abusing those mechanics? Afterall, the card is getting released in a week or two right? Situations like this could start to come up.
So someone that abuses the mechanic intentionally is invariably a cock that you shouldn’t be playing with 
[quote=“PaxCecilia, post:27, topic:289”]
So someone that abuses the mechanic intentionally is invariably a cock that you shouldn’t be playing with[/quote]
Imagine this: you’re playing in the finale of a big tournament, and in the middle of a turn your opponent plays this card. You do not remember cheatin’ but you already shuffled your discard into the deck, so you cannot check. But you really don’t remember cheatin’ this turn, so you tell your opponent: “no man, I cheated last turn, this turn I was legal”. Your opponent insists. Will you take his word for granted, seeing as it might lose you the game and the tournament? Or will you write all lowball results in a notepad?
I don’t expect this to happen often, but the possibility and the necessity to make effort to prevent this troubles me. But you’re right, we’ll see soon enough.
Heh, the only way I can imagine myself in the finale of a big tournament is if only one other person showed up
As others have suggested, I would put a green or black chit next to my discard/deck to remind me whether I cheated or not. Space already exists for these mistakes since abilities can only be used once unless they have repeat. It could have easily been a noon ability that he thinks I already used, but I haven’t.
shrug
It’s definitely a tough situation. I’ve never played this game while experiencing any fatigue, so recalling which abilities have been used has never been an issue. I suppose in a longer tournament that could start to get harder to keep track of (and no one wants to be DQ’d or lose from a simple memory mistake).
[quote=“PaxCecilia, post:29, topic:289”]
I’ve never played this game while experiencing any fatigue, so recalling which abilities have been used has never been an issue. I suppose in a longer tournament that could start to get harder to keep track of (and no one wants to be DQ’d or lose from a simple memory mistake).[/quote]
Yes, that. I meant to write the word ‘fatigue’ in my previous post, but it got lost in the train of thought. I’m glad you got the idea 
Preferred in what sense? Your personal preference? Sure, that’s fine. I don’t see much in a way of an argument as to why it’s objectively better or worse though.
[quote=“Darguth, post:31, topic:289”]
Preferred in what sense? Your personal preference? Sure, that’s fine. I don’t see much in a way of an argument as to why it’s objectively better or worse though.[/quote]
We could make a poll. I like polls
One could argue that not being affected by fatigue and avoiding player mistake is what makes a good player a great player, a tournament winner. The European Championship in Game of Thrones last year lasted from 9 am to 3 am that night with a 2 hour dinner break and a small lunch break. Even watching that and chatting with the other players was exhausting. Sometimes it takes more than just to play well to place better than everyone else :).
Sure we could, but popular opinion does not express that something is objectively better. 
The potential problem is that we might see a few more similar abilities that trigger on various conditions e.g. lowball of hand rank 1, losing lowball by 3 or more, flush, all red, all black etc. I would like to see a comment from devs on this one tbh.
I think you are going a bit overboard on this one. The best thing would be to handle those issues when or if they come up, right now it just seems that you have to keep a close look on your opponents draw hands, maybe asking if he cheated or not and risking to give away you are playing that card. Kind of a meta cost you have to pay.
I try to always ask if they are cheating or to review their lowball hand. Otherwise when you ask on Turn 3 later on they’ll be able to anticipate you have a cheatin’ card in hand. Also, reviewing their lowball gives you valuable info on their deck contents and structure, so why wouldn’t you (in competitive play)?
So I don’t even really consider this a meta cost to this card, what you described is just smart/standard play already.
Yes you are completely right. In this sense what I said is just proper play.
In a competitive environment I always check the cards my opponent reveals/discards. This is especially important in this game. I also announce if I cheated or not and my opponents usually tend to do same thing by then or I just ask. Playing with friends is another thing entirely.
I would hope that the final game of ANY major event would be judged “at table” and any normal person would look at the judge and ask “did my opponent cheat during lowball”
But hey, that’s just me, I don;t recall any majpr event final in any game I’ve played in the last 20 years not having a judge on hand to make those final game crucial decisions.
People are making far too much out of this card than needs to be made.
Once again, if you worry that your players will abuse this, you have a serious issue with your playerbase not the card itself.
I want to know if they will add a lot of stuff that requires additional tracking. Hopefully not. Why did I go overboard exactly?