Hand Rank Manipulation Rules and Upcoming Changes

[Lapp]

Per previous ruling, during lowball there were situations in which a player had their hand rank raised or lowered. In a situation in which your hand rank was raised, it would become the lowest hand possible for that hand rank. For instance, for 2 pair, this would be, A-A-2-2-3. In a situation in which your hand was lowered, the ruling placed your hand at the highest possible for that hand rank. For instance, if your hand was lowered to High card, it would be K-Q-J-10-8.

This ruling was never placed into the rulebook. What was placed is the section under shootouts:

"When a card effect increases your hand rank, it is considered to be the worst possible hand of its
new rank unless it is changed to a rank of 11 or above, in which case treat it as rank 11 and equal
to all other rank 11 hands. When a card effect reduces your hand rank, it is considered to be the
best possible hand of its new rank unless it falls below rank 1, in which case it is treated as the
worst possible rank 1 hand."

Rules team is evaluating how this will be interpreted for Lowball.

Any changes will go into effect for the next round-up (Greenhorn) and Marshall Event (Oct 3) along with subsequent hosted Savage Lands Series round-ups and the next set of round-ups.

[jordan_caldwell]

In a nutshell, the argument / question is:

Q) Is Lowering to the "Lowest" or the "Worst" within Rank?

Q) Is Raising to the "Highest" or the "Best" within Rank?

[Lapp]

Correct, that is the current issue. Rules Team is looking to reword this for cleaner language.

[Lapp]

Best and worst will be defined in terms of best and worst poker hands for both situations.

When a hand rank is raised, it becomes the worst poker hand you can make at that hand rank.

When a hand rank is lowered, it becomes the best poker hand made at that hand rank.

The clause that being lowered beyond HR1 makes you the worst HR1 is being removed from the rules.

[Thunderforge]

When a hand rank is raised, it becomes the worst poker hand you can make at that hand rank.

Will the new rules cover what happens if this results in an exact tie? This would most likely come up if both hands were raised to a Dead Man's Hand (or one was already a DMH and another was raised to it), since both would have the exact hand of A A 8 8 J , meaning the idea of "best" and "worst" are meaningless. It could also happen for lowball if both hands were lowered to the same rank, thus they tie.

[Lapp]

Yes, that will be updated. Here are the current rules.

Lowball: Players with exactly tied hands (e.g. both players reveal 2​, 3​, 4​, 5​, 7​)
draw new five-card lowball hands to break the tie

Shootouts: The winner of this round of the shootout is the player with the highest hand rank. If hand ranks are equal but one player has a better hand (say, three jacks compared to three aces), that player still wins this round. If both players have the exact same hand (ignoring suits), there is no winner or loser for this round.

Starting with the loser of the round (or the leader if there was no loser), each player must ace or discard enough dudes in their posse to match their casualties

[Lapp]

The Hand Rank clarifications have been updated in the new rulebook:

http://pineboxentertainment.com/resources/

When a card effect reduces your hand rank, it is considered to be the best possible hand of its new rank. When a card effect raises your hand rank, it is considered to be the worst possible hand of its new rank.

"The rank of your draw hand always equals the highest possible rank that can be achieved with the cards in that hand. If your hand rank is changed by other effects, it is considered the highest possible hand of that rank (e.g. if your hand is changed to the rank of a straight, it is treated as a hand of 8, 10, J, Q, K)."