First Sentence Requirement + Modifiers

Hello,

There was recent discussion on the Discord about how Curse of Failure and Consecration interact. There, it was mentioned that you can use Consecration on a dude who has been hit by Curse of Failure, as the modifiers have attempted to be modified (they just can’t be), and thus the requirement has been met.

Further discussion led to determining that the tether to that was that attempting-but-failing on modifiers was okay, but anything that affects the persistent board state (booting cards, discarding from hand, paying ghost rock, etc.) was not.

This could be fine, but I’m not sure it aligns with precedent (nor an intuitive reading of first line requirements rule; unsure how I would differentiate modifiers from persistent state, based on whats in the rules)? Consider this ancient post by mplain:

http://forums.pineboxentertainment.com/t/first-sentence-after-the-colon-is-a-requirement/593

In there, he claims:

Zhu’s Ferocity cannot be played at all if the only dude in the opposing posse is Quaterman.

and

Pagliaccio, Corporeal Twist, and Zhu’s Ferocity also cannot target a dude equipped with a Peacemaker.

It’s ultimately an odd post, as far as the Rules Questions forums go, as it’s not really a question but more a meandering of consciousness through hypothetical ramifications of removing the first sentence rule. The wild west of the Rules Questions forums, I wager.

But nonetheless, the thoughts there aligned with my previous understanding; the first sentence is a firm requirement, and being unable to perform any part of it, regardless of if modifiers, or persistent board state, means you can’t do it.

So, if nothing else, if that isn’t the case, good to have that explicitly called out clearly here; can I use Consecration on a dude who has been hit by Curse of Failure? Can I use Zhu’s Ferocity, if the only opposing dude is a QUATERMAN?

Thanks as always.

Seen and under review by RT

  1. Can I use Consecration on a dude who has been hit by Curse of Failure?
  2. Can I use Zhu’s Ferocity, if the only opposing dude is a QUATERMAN?

Consecration
Cheatin’ Resolution Miracle 7: One of your dudes gets +2 bullets and +2 influence and becomes a stud until after Sundown. If this is a shootout, reduce your casualties this round by 3.

Curse of Failure
Condition
This dude loses all keywords, traits, and abilities. This dude’s bullets, influence, and control points are equal to 0 and cannot be modified. This dude gets +1 upkeep. This card cannot be discarded by card effects.

Noon Job, Boot: Mark an opposing dude. If successful, discard all cards attached to the mark and send them home booted; attach this card to the mark.

Yes, you can cast Consecration. It will have no effect.

Zhu’s Ferocity
Shootout Tao Technique: If successful, this dude gets +1 bullets and an opposing dude gets -1 bullets. Combo if this dude has higher bullets than the opposing dude.

Quaterman
QUATERMAN’s bullets cannot be modified except by attached goods. Cards cannot move or boot QUATERMAN.

Yes, this card can be played if the Quaterman is the only Dude in the opposing posse.

We are going to evaluate further rules like this and leave this thread open to link on any ones that need to be evaluated. This is going to go into the next rulebook iteration as well as we move towards changing requirement clauses.

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Please note the older post referenced will be deleted, as it is no longer relevant in the Pine Box era.

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Got it, thanks for the reply, greatly appreciated.

This is perhaps out of scope, but I’m curious; what’s the impetus behind changing this? It seems like it is making things more complicated (in a game that is already mighty complicated, from a rules perspective).

“if you can’t do everything in the first sentence, you can’t take the action”

Is being replaced with:

“if you can’t do everything in the first sentence, you can’t take the action, unless the things you couldn’t do are […]”

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We are moving away from the first sentence requirement.

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