With the errata to Nicodemus, is Spirit Fortress as we know it dead? Is the cap of 3 extra CPs enough to still be a viable strategy, in tandem with things like Epidemic Laboratory, Tse-Che-Nako, Chief Steven, other deeds, or other methods?
What would a viable Fortress strategy look like?
Curious on peoples thoughts
(also, I realize a lot of the conversation we have on topics like this is over on Discord these days, but this is a good forum topic, especially with Worlds (and later Gencon) coming up)
Excellent topic. Fortress has taken a severe beating, and I think has to seriously adapt to stay relevant.
I donāt think non-interactive Spirit fortress has the necessary control points to win anymore . I think spirit fortress may still be a relevant strategy in holding a small number of key locations but it will have to be capable of more than simply hold and win.
Agree, not sure about the non-interactive version (hence one of the reasons for the errata), but theyāve got ways to hit the CP points. Last I played I never saw Nico and instead the Chief came in after some board manipulation and a shootout to hit the win condition.
Plus putting it on the forum rather than Discord will help us track any faulty predictions I make!
Overall, Iām pleased to see Fortress downgraded, as it isnāt a very interactive deck. It is dull to pilot and to play against. As you note, it could still work with Epidemic Laboratory (on value for Spirit Fortress anyway) or perhaps as a slide options - Fortress up one location (so you donāt lose to CP on your own deeds), then pick off isolated opposing dudes with Mariel Lewis + Kiidnappinā to whittle down opposing influence (simultaneously getting CP back).
Additionally, Fortress may still prove hard to beat in timed tournament rounds and has a decent chance of winning tie breakers: tons of influence thanks to Beyond the Veil, plus 3CP from Nicodemus and control points from Whichever deed youāve Fortressed. Admittedly, a whole tournament of taking games to time would be fairly soul destroying to pilot, but youād have a decent chance of qualifying for the cut even with the reduced points for timed wins. Probably needs you to win all your games, or only drop oneā¦
For those keen on EW but looking for something more interactive I hope the below help. Itās the runner-up at Evil is a Choice (attrition/blockade) plus a trio of decks from @VinceTurner, who has a fine record playing a variety of styles of EW decks.
There are also non spirit fortress decks that utilized Nicodemus for massive CPās. Some of these decks took a bit of a hit. Nicodemus at his family estate can still rack you 5CP that are difficult to stop. This is still quite viable in slide decks which can push a victory turn, and dedicating a big enough posse to stop it could cost the game as well.
An example I found of what Iām talking about, that also uses Clementine at The Union Casino.
Definitely mirror those thoughts, Harlath. Also that is a good set of deck lists as alternatives, even if its not fortress in the classic sense, which it seems like is no longer a viable option.
I was also considering the idea of a āwin by timed victoryā with just a ton of influence via Beyond the Veil, but that sounds simply too evil/NPE to even consider! For any bigger tournaments with 5+ rounds, I donāt think the 3 points would be enough to qualify into the quarter finals unless it was a win every single time, maybe even requiring a single win before time. 5 wins x 3 points = 15, which is just the same as winning 3 games (but would tie breakers go to the āno lossesā person? Iām not good with how that stuff works). Either way, it sounds painful for all involved.
Iāve always had a hard time imagining how a fortress Epidemic Laboratory deck works (or any Epidemic Lab-based deck works) because of having to run home booted after the job. Either you overcommit and cannot hold it after the job, or under commit and risk your posse dying. Anyone have experience with this, or good deck lists to showcase? Iāve always considered it a good alternative to Allie, where if you are already dominating, you can use it to slowly work your way to victory. As the sole win condition, though, it seems hard since you cant defend it afterwards, like you can with allie in the town square.
Iād suggest taking the town square then running the job with a cheap solo skilled dude as the way to go with Epidemic Lab. I use it quite a lot, but Iāve never relied on it as my sole win condition.
Sounds like the best way to do it. So instead of Fortress, weāre back to the āBlockadeā archetype it seems.
One other way instead of blockade might be āmove into shootoutā actions like Pinto, Ghostly Communion, etc, and only join the job when necessary. That might be worth trying out, since you can safely ignore the town square at that point and just concentrate on your Epidemic Lab (which will be adjacent to home and work with Ghostly Communion without a totem if you are using the Gateway to Beyond home).
Or run the Epidemic Laboratory job with your shaman plus some Ancestor Spirits plus a few extra nature Spirits to join in during the shootout?
Lose-lose for your opponent: if they defend theyāre in a shootout where you have little to lose (lots of stud tokens) plus theyāre out of position, if they donāt defend youāre getting CP and GR.
The nature of BtV (and the tie break rules) means that fortress is never really going to die and BtV generic strength compared to the other outfits means it not going anywhere anytime soon.
Even if you build an aggro deck designed to throw down totems and get in your opponents face using raven and some of the more offensive shaman you could still fall back to being a fortress deck if you think your opponent can outshoot you. For example you might go aggro against morgan trying to pick off some low cost high influence dudes but fort up against law dogs at least until you get rid of thunder boy.
Heās provided a write up detailing how things went. Seems like Fortress decks can still pick up wins, but do so more slowly and often go to time. Under the new tournament scoring system theyāll likely lose out in the rankings to decks that are less reliable but can win faster.
