To go with today’s announcement
So like. A way to facilitate more viable (or more experimental) starting posses without sacrificing early influence, starting rock, or at-home stud presence?
Helps players defend while retaining a bit of influence and then to afford their expensive characters later on. Relieves some of the pressure with Legend starting costs if you want to spend a bit of time getting set up at home.
Plus they’re wicked trouble makers in Deadlands canon! These fiends serve War’s plans by stirring up trouble and then getting the hell out of Dodge when things get serious.
I’m interested to hear the argument how this is a better idea than printing a few more low-cost non-zero-influence dudes?
Like, is this character intended to be Jake Smiley’s functional replacement?
I think a larger set would be a good place for more low-cost dudes with influence - I agree these would be good for the game if balanced properly. These cards can be a little vanilla by necessity, so if I was in charge of allocating cards to sets (mercifully I’m not!) then I’d probably mix them in with cards with more interesting traits/abilities in a larger set.
I’ll still run Jake Smiley in some decks and this in others. Jake is good in Sloane Town Square control point blitz (which I think still works) as he has more influence and can grab a CP in the town square with your outfit (or even boldly sit on an opposing deed). I see these cards as occupying a similar space as each other without either making the other obsolete.
- Agent Provocateur lets you defend yourself better and bring dudes in later for a low ghost rock cost but at the cost of maneuverability and a point of Sundown influence relative to Jake Smiley.
- Jake give you two “influence” rather than one and the capability to occasionally pinch a deed to win a game/stay in a game, but at the cost of being a much weaker shooter and lower value.
I think different deck types will use a different one of the two - some decks might even run both!
I agree with your points.
With respect: I also feel like the printing of Agent Provocateur acknowledges the very problem that it tries to solve - and it just feels a little silly that the solution is a dude who has a wall of text and whose ultimate function is to be replaced.
So I guess my question is: If we want to increase the types of dudes who are considerable for viable starting posses, why not print a few cheaper but balanced dudes in an attempt to solve the problem directly?
Without saying I agree or disagree on the issue Agent Provocateur is aimed at, I suspect it might come down to opportunity cost (sorry for the jargon): printing a bunch of viable starting posse dudes uses up many card slots and could leave a set feeling useful but a bit vanilla, while printing Agent Provocateur is an interim solution that covers 80% (or whatever!) of the same problem but uses up only one card slot in the expansion. Then, you can add more reasonably priced influence options (if desired) in a subsequent larger set.
Sorry if this feels like rehashing part of my post above. As noted, this kind of thing is way above my responsibility level.
Linked to all of the above, interested in which factions people find starting posses particularly easy/hard to build for. Is there a feeling Sloane has a particularly tough time scrounging up influence, particularly with FMB growing in popularity and making Jake Smiley a significant risk?
Law Dogs blessed and sloane hucksters I find particularly frustrating for starting posses. That combination of skilled dudes beyond 0, influence, and low cost/upkeep is very difficult to find. On the opposite end is 4th Ring hucksters - starting posse is very easy, zero upkeep, plenty of influence, and at least 1 or 2 skilled dudes at huckster: 1 is easy.
I haven’t quite wrapped my head around whether or not this new dude helps. My gut feeling is I won’t like putting Agent Provocateur in my starting posses, but will love (read: auto include) having it in any non-DMH deck running 8’s. This dude requires a dude in hand, and if you want to be able to have mobility by turn 2, that only gives you 5 cards in hand to have a playable dude. Otherwise you have a dude stuck at home until that happens. That does not inspire confidence in me to have a reliable mobile posse by turn 2 or 3.
I actually like the idea to have a bit of influence and some defense at the start to get some bigger guys in later in play.
Printing some low cost inf dudes instead sounds like printing auto includes to me.
It’s maybe just me but i loathe to have to use Jake Smiley to be able to survive until i can find/afford my important dudes. This at least looks a bit more thematic and as Harlath mentioned, you have to consider the opportunity cost.
Was playing mainly blessed law dogs last year and mustering a skilled posse with more than 3 inf and money to spare, that doesn’t just die if attacked immediately was a real headache. Need to try again with the new blesseds.
(Disclaimer: I probably play far less than the other posters, so maybe i’m far off with my opinion ^^)
Having one of your starting dudes unable to defend deeds is a big risk. I predict, at least initially, people will get caught out by this and boot all their mobile influence and then lose to jake smiley coming and sitting on their deeds.
(this may or may not have happened to me)
Feedback is welcome from across the player-base. As Pinebox have said in recent articles they want to make the game fun for lots of different player types and feedback helps the Playtest team get a feel for everything from kitchen table play to hard core tournaments. If anything, getting kitchen table/new player feedback is hardest and therefore particularly welcome.
Sometimes a particular card/strategy is an issue for the whole player base, sometimes just in particular metas or for particular experience levels. Strategies/issues a particular sub-set of players are struggling with can help with both reviewing the play environment and with ideas for articles (“Tips on Building Starting Posses”, “How to Play Against Slide” etc).
This card is the card that has scared me away from the Kickstarter and the Doomtown revival. The fact that this card exists highlights that Doomtown has many fundamental problems that simply can’t be fixed without axing the entire card pool and starting from scratch. If the core problems of this game are going to be patched with ridiculous cards like this, then the game is dead and I’ll be waiting for the next incarnation instead of this one.
I’m sorry you dislike this card so much and that it has put you off the Kickstarter.
I think it might prove a trap for some people, as the movement restrictions on it will stop them from protecting their deeds which will cost them income at the very least and potentially even the game if they can’t contest Control Points and jobs that target the Town Square/Opposing deeds. That said, in other matches it may prove very useful both for defending you from early aggression and for the subsequent discount.
I’ll confess that I’m coming from a place where I think most factions have better starting influence options than at the start of the game and that more good starting influence options are being added with expansions. Apologies if I’ve misunderstood what irked you about the card, keen to understand the issues you’re concerned about.
I agree with @Harlath - While this card is situationally strong, I think a lot of factions now have in house dudes that provide larger benefits. The inability to move can be incredibly problematic and can often result in you ending up a man down in shootouts or movement.
The actions requires you to ace it to bring another dude into play and it’s not an abomination so it can’t be recursed and abused. It’s designed to help you defend early aggro at home jobs, which it certainly excels at - but I am sorry that you dislike the card so much that it has scared you away from the kickstarter
Can’t you tell what these problems are that this card highlights for you?
Some Dudes too expensive? Starting Inf to scarce?
I feel this dude is a bit in line with Jaquline Isham or Jake Smiley - she can’t attack or contest deeds but defends your starting posse - but with different drawbacks and a discount for another dude later on (which makes you lose her influence and defense).
It also takes away a Steven Wiles Slot.
Why is this card especially problematic?