The first competitive gadget archetype?

So the Morgan Flyin’ Zombies archetype has been turning heads lately. Some of the most talked about and well-explained iterations are here:

What do you think this means about the power of Mogan Gadgets?

I think that they have the chance to put science up there in terms of competitiveness. Unfortunately, my loathing of Force Field and lose to win as a decktype means I wont play it :frowning:

So I’m torn. I’m happy that Science is moving up. But, I’m bummed I’m not interested in the deck that is getting it there.

I don’t really classify thus as lose2win tbh.

I classify Force Field as Lose to Win.

I have absolutely zero desire to ever play that card.

Lose to Win means hurting the other player when you lose a shootout round (seems like an obvious definition). So cards like Hot Lead Flying, Taking Ya With Me or Mutant Cattle are Lose to Win. Force Field doesn’t hurt the opponent when you lose, it allows you to make up for hand rank with ghost rock (thus avoiding most of the consequences of losing, as long as you can pay). It does make the real Lose to Win cards (as well as the rank-lowering cards) more powerful.

Of course, that doesn’t change anything to your second sentence. It might even be a better reason for it.

I just replied to the Facebook version of this with my reasoning, I’ll TL:DR

I view FF as L2W Support.
I’ve beat my head against L2W decks since Pre-errata TYWM in Classic.
I don’t like L2W or the cards that support that style of play.
I don’t care for current Science (Reloaded science)

Yes, I see the irony in my Username being Madscience. I was a Collegium player from Day 1 of Classic. (It was the only starter left when I got to the shop after work) I had hoped I would be a Gadgeteer in Reloaded.

Instead I play with Dead things in Town Square.

Nice deck. On lose to win I personally like the strategy I played Martell in thrones for years. Doomtown lose to win is a bit more complex imo so I don’t pick it up I just go hunting for dudes and blow them up or teleport them to death.

There are a few of us in the Pasadena meta that have been fine tuning a couple of force field decks. Pay to win out of gadgets isn’t necessarily new but it has been getting a lot of support cards lately. Coupled with the fact that you can start with 4 influence and 7 money before lowball out of Morgan means it may be time for this type to shine.

The versions we have been using are a bit more ridged in their structure than the lists posted here. 789 off value “its not what you know”
Grab pinto if you want to run stables which gives you enough horses to consider “run 'em down!”. Or play Gadgetorium and run monte bank for huge production.
Raise to their level if needed with force field then throw as many cheaten varmits and its not what you knows at them until you run out of money. God help them if they actually cheat and you arnt just paying for the resolution.

As for its competitive viability I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be at least as good as pay to win which sits at high mid tier in my opinion.

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The release of A Slight Modification was the point from which on gadgets could be competitive and Yagn’s Mechanical Skeleton did the rest. Although I am pretty sure playing against a Force Field deck is the worst NPE Doomtown has to offer.

Im not agrée… Hard control clown is NPE , forteress is NPE , JUDGE is NPE, forcefield need money and some turns , Its quite predictible.
Madscientist since coreset im so happy to créate fear after months of jokes… Thks AEG

And yes khudz, hot lead flying is a réal L2W f… Card , i hâte that bandit deck :wink: , really, but i could play it one day, i keep my mind open.


I play Hot Lead Flyin’ in my kung fu deck (and I’m not ashamed of it). It’s quite good in such a deck, because you already need low-value cards and high-value dudes (kung fu helps a lot for that, and so does Forster Cooke). However, you still need a large posse and a good hand to really get much out of it (since it counts the number of dudes still in your posse after taking casualties). If it didn’t work so well, I’d fall back on Faster on the Draw, which is quite good as well, even without deputies.

I see force field the same way as I see cheatin’ resolution cards - they are to be used in case your opponent goes crazy, and either 1- prevents you from being totally slaughtered or 2- punishes them if they cheat and get a great hand. The whole point of this deck is to win shootouts, with the peace of mind that when all suited up - you can’t lose! (well, of course there are ways, but they are very limited). It’s not lose to win, it’s win/win!

Mutant cattle might be a ‘lose to win’ card, but that’s not at all why it was in the deck. It was mostly there to sacrifice to a force-fielded dude if you didn’t have a harrowed dude out there. I’ve gotten rid of it in my deck long ago, since the original list was still pretty early in it’s inception, but that’s why it was there originally.

Force field also allows you to potentially ‘go crazy’ yourself with cheating, and suddenly half the cheatin’ res cards are useless against you (other than making you spend more GR). Only cards that don’t affect hand rank will have an effect (coachwhip, Flight of the Lepus, etc).

Actually, I think “pay to win” is even worse than “lose to win”, especially now it’s possible to make loads and loads of money.

I’ll be honest, I really don’t see the “loads and loads” of money that gadgets can make. There is a single gadget - on a bad value for gadgets - that generates a one time profit of 3 ghost rock. Pulling that gadget causes a failure on your more difficult inventions.

The only way it can rake in tons of cash is if your opponent decides to just let you play your deeds and get your production. Which isn’t a strength of gadgets, its a weakness of opponents.

First of all it is 5 gr with Specks. Rest depends a little bit on luck, if you draw or find out of town deed with Arnold you can use outfit ability or Specks if you haven’t used him earlier the same turn to play it at reduced price.
I played quite a lot of games against this deck and more often then not its eco boomed really quickly. And yes I tried to contest everything from early game.
BTW I don’t think it isa top tier deck, it is good and because of A slight Modification it has good options of defending against some good and popular decks e.g. Legendary Holster decks .

I’ve played against a few of these and like Swider said, it’s if they get their out-of-town economy out early with help from Arnold/Specks that they become a real handful as it can be tricky to both block their income and defend what you have in/out of town early on. If you don’t have both the draw structure to match them and enough expendable bodies for a war of attrition then it can be hard to stop them once they’ve got their Force fields and a decent pile of rock.

You should give the deck a couple of tries, most of the time the money is pretty crazy. Not counting deeds as a way to make money, we have:

Morgan Home ability (up to 2 GR a turn)
Specks (almost always 2GR a turn)
Irving (if you get an ornithopter, it’s almost always 1 GR a turn - if not, it’s denying your opponent income as you sit on their deeds)
If you get the right cards to utilize these effects, thats up to 5 GR a turn in addition to the 3 you start out with on your home. Up to 8GR that your opponent typically can’t stop.

Now add currency press (instant 5 GR with specks is just nuts), out of town deeds (arnold helping to find them), plus any in town deeds (including Bairds and General Store, but often only once before they are sat on) you are snowballing into because your opponent can’t keep up, and you can start to see how the economy can be crazy.

Obviously things don’t always work out, though. I do like the option of having crazy economy while hiding away at home and making gadgets, though. I am working on another deck that has some awesome hide-at-home and make good money, but it’s nowhere near the level of the flyin’ zombies…