People need to learn that you can safely ignore DR jobs in the first few turns if you cannot handle it. DR decks, by nature tend to be shootout focused and as a result they tend to have less things to do with their money, especially since they sacrifice deed slots because they think they don’t need them as much.
I’ve found that DR decks left alone tend to get rich but then spent it on dudes they cannot easily keep paying and then they plateau. It’s not always the case but very often I discovered I can simply let the job run for turn 1 & 2 while I build up in peace, since they cannot easily contest me with their shooter booted at home.
What I’m trying to say, is that getting into a turn 1 all-out brawl with DR is a player choice, and it’s not by far the only valid or good choice.
Well, I wouldn’t use the word “degenerate”, as this whole “Desolation Row is winning every single tournament!” thing is pretty recent, and honestly I don’t think it’ll last for long this way. I’m not disappointed or worried about it, I just find it… peculiar
I agree with you about Oddities though, their home ability really makes them go all-in right from the start, and if you do get a bad opening hand, then you’re more screwed than any other outfit. I’d be happy to see new cheap abominations with influence.
While I tend to ignore first few jobs myself, it is not always a good choice. Many people are running Recruitment Drive and few 2 CP deeds, they snowball their eco, gain 1/2 CP from outfit + probably additional 2 from Recruitment Drive or by just playing deeds from hand, and when they think they can defend their deeds they just play one or two 2 CP deeds. Also I do agree with the statement that this outfit is not the best at ending game very quickly by itself, it tends to snowball though, and because of that people chose to go all in on turn one so the result is the same, a game ends quickly.
They have Angelica and they run Stakes Just Rose/ Pinto. I learned the hard way that if my opponent starts a job with a dude that is a draw, I better not oppose said job.
Or they’re bluffing. The thing is, do they have just Angelica? Then a single bullet reduction should take care of her. Do they have another stud as well? Then wait until one of them is booted at home.
My favourite trick with Law Dogs was to send Wendy in, whip their leader and then make the smart choice home to deny them money
I one saw the opposite: the Desolation player sent Jake Smiley on the job, with Angélica staying at home ready to join. I decide that it is a good moment to get rid of him, and I oppose and commit everyone. Jake makes the smart choice, then the opponent takes all my deeds =_=
If you have Stakes or Pinto you can be booted or even out of town it doesn’t matter, and pretty much everyone I played against is using those cards, there is no reason not to.
Unless you run Helmet it is impossible to tell whether they are bluffing or not, if you take a risk and you lose a shootout it is gg.
Depends on how much you lose. If I got expendable chaff like Travis, I can defend with 3 dudes, assuming I got some shootout actions to even the field and assuming I whip their leader and lose by 1-2 ranks, it’s still good enough. Then I run away. Maybe even better in a tie.
And yes, stakes and Pintos are always useful, but they still need to commit to the job first. If they just sent the one dude with the pinto, they likely are wiped with a single SIYE, so they need support, then they have less dudes to defend the town. Sacrifice someone like Travis to force them to commit their Pinto/Stakes if needed, then bring your shooter to finish them off.
The problem is that you know you play against shootout oriented deck that can snowball. As you said there are options and combination of cards that can prevent it , but describing every possible scenario is kind of pointless since there are too many assumptions to be made. The outfit isn’t imbalanced or too strong, the thing is playing against it means either opposing the job on day one or two what very often ends a game , or letting your opponents economy to grow rapidly hoping he has no good cards in his hand which he can play, so most people naturally chose first option.
The biggest issue for me is that it is another strategy that can and most often leads to a game ending extremely quickly and somewhat randomly. I have strong believe that adding few more items that add influence or conditional influence would help solving this problem, e.g. more attire and possibly unique guns and horses ( at least I believe they should be unique).
But why? How will additional influence help you against Desolation Row? If their jobs are left unopposed, they will gain money, buy dudes & deeds, occupy your deeds and deny you money. Then they’ll Kidnap your influence dudes. How does buying time help you against them?
Buying a time will help me get the cards I want in play and in play hand. There are some actions in a game for instance supporting horses that let you gain control without getting involved in shootouts, also ability of picking fights is very important. A horse or two that work with my actions and gives me influence increases my chances of winning a game. The GR doesn’t give you a win, CP’s do.
First of all, I don’t think that it is unbalanced outfit, it is just boring to play against.
I know all these tricks to play around DR and downsides of this outfit, but I also know that it has really good longterm economy that snowballs quickly, 3-4 gr per turn without any deed - that’s a lot.
The most vulnerable timing of this deck is first turns due to 17 starting GR, and that forces players to play very quickly and agressively, which transfoms into single turn games.
Imho the only card that is close to fix this feature is This is hold up. If you can stop this snowball without going all-in, but shifting the focus of shootouts instead(‘you can come and punish me, if you still have strong enough dudes’), then our problem would be solved I think. But as it is, Holdup is not very reliable and rewardable. Can we have something like opponet loses 5 gr, you gain 10 and 2 bounteys^^
Coachwhip is good vs most of shooters decks, and tma otherwise is too restricted in use. Yes you can boot their deedes sometimes, but ussually it is not good enough for deckslot. Of course if 90 % of meta is Wanted decks, I will reconsider my estimate, but I hope we get more universal card that helps with DR issue.
This is my general impression as well. I’m very disappointed when I sit down across from a deedless or nearly deedless Sloane deck, whether as the original outfit or DR. Not because I feel like it is unfair, but because I feel like it distorts the basic premise of Doomtown too much.
When you lose the concept of moving around and contesting the town and the game begins to center around just nearly flat CP/Influence race with a single decisive shootout usually ending the game it no longer feels like Doomtown Reloaded to me
