They do, but TMA is very often useless against other factions, especially Morgan. Also there is still problem with Stakes, Angelica and / or Buffalo Rifle.
Heh, maybe more people should start using Forget to get rid of Angelica 
1 Like
If I use circus I always have 3xForget in my deck, but I only use circus when I am losing too many games and need to rise my morale :). Forget btw is the most underrated spell IMO. So many times I heard from so many different people that they cannot wait for new spell of J value since Forget is so weak, while IMO it is the only spell that is getting stronger with every released SB since people add more and more dudes with abilities into their decks. Angelica or Rafi are two very good examples.
1 Like
Forget, in what deck? If youâre playing control clowns, then youâre probably not going to engage them, no matter how many shooters they have. If youâre playing shooter clowns - well, yeah, youâre probably playing Forget, but how are you going to cast it before the job goes off? End your turn with a huckster in town sqaure? This can be trickyâŠ
More people should start using Forget = more people should play The Fourth Ring. In this matchup, AngĂ©lica probably isnât your biggest concern. Actually, is 4R a difficult matchup for Desolation Row?
Iâd actually use Forget even after the Job to allow me to take over the town without being bothered by Angelica.
There are few cases in which forget is not strictly worse than Paralysis Mark, Phantasm, or Blood Curse. You donât have any money, you play lower values, and yes, AngĂ©lica 
If people dislike Desolation Row because itâs boring, and/or it sometimes forces a first turn shootout you donât want because youâre worried about them snowballing, do they feel the same for Kidnapping or Ambush?
Maybe Iâm wrong, but I feel that sometimes you just have to accept a kidnapping against one of your dudes because you donât feel you can defend against it, but letting your opponent have a few ghostrock is a problem? True they can do it every turn, but theyâre booting people to do it.
Not sure about anyone else, but I played Desolation Row to easily make my own dudes wanted for Bad Company and to increase their huckster levels, I could play the same deck out of the original outfitâŠ
Having the Ghost Rock isnât the problem to me. Itâs the CP generation while also returning home in relative safety after the job ends. At least with the original outfit you had to camp TS to get your CP, which is much weaker than camping at home.
In either case, Iâm not a huge fan of outfits that generate CPs on non-Deeds anyway. As I stated, it distracts from the general gameplay at the core of what I think DTR is.
Early action Kidnappings or Ambushes are not the same because just destroying your opponentâs Influence doesnât win you the game. You win the game with CP.
Apart from needing more than zero CP, isnât gaining CP the exact same as destroying your opponentâs influence?
I personally love CPs on non-Deeds, itâs one of the main reasons I was drawn to Law Dogs in the original game, and Sloane in Reloaded. Iâve only been to 1 tournament, but I havenât seen a Desolation Row deck that doesnât play deeds, just uses the CP from the outfit to win, I doubt itâd work, now a Law Dogs deck that starts with the JailâŠ
I agree, building CPs and killing off your opponentâs influence are pretty much two ways to win the game. Usually you use both, but you can also concentrate on just one.
Non-deed CPs are not a problem for me, if they just add like 1-2. When every opposing dude gets a CP, then yes, that becomes annoying.
I tested out my Oddities deck versus a basic DR build - the home ability isnât that much good as DR comes to the town square via the home job. I actually start Gina vs. Freddy as it is a hex-less deck that has moving parts. So Gina lets me see more cards and get more tech into my hand. Sun in Yer Eyes and Unprepared are cards Iâm always happy to see pre-T1.
Cheatinâ Cards such as Flight of the Lepus and Thisâll Hurt in the Morinin, and Coachwhip can wreck DR as well - but immediately messing with their dudes and draw structure.
Right now, Iâm running a DMH draw structure, but may switch to 5,8,J to better access mobility and tech options. The idea vs. DR is to deny them the early GR, then use Influence to camp early deeds they may put out. Hired Guns + Stevens/Bobos help keep the pressure on.
Still a work in progress, but Iâve also had success in bullet manipulation forcing ties where I discard a Paggy and they discard a Sloane or Alice. Or being short of rock, had to discard their big shooter due to insufficient funds.
From what I see in this thread, the general suggestion vs. Desolation Row is âdeny them early money, oppose jobs, play Suns and Pistol Whips and Wendyâ. So basically the counter to DR is another aggro deck, be it classic Sloane or Law Dogs, or more exotic Oddities or Morgan.
I would like to hear if anyone has success playing vs. Desolation Row without opposing their early jobs and outshooting them. Control clowns, horses, holdup denial, jobslide, rumors - does any of this work reliably?
I think the only alternative to aggro is not control. There are hybrids as well. For example my T4R shotgun deck out of oddifties loves to be left alone for a few turns to build up and will happily let you have 2-3 DR jobs until then. Similar for my gadget decks who really appreciate a few undisturbed turns to build up. But after that time passes, they will absolutely come out to play.
Control clowns - and we are happy that you boot your own dudes so we may boot the rest and then take over your control points - be it through puppet or taking your deeds.
I have a pretty consistent win over Sloane Aggro with control clowns. Itis normally game over by turn 3 - unless Steven or something influency needs to be shot first.
1 Like
This was my biggest question after I heard about Desolation Row winning all the tournaments - how, with 4R still being big in the meta? They boot some of their dudes, I paralyze the rest, puppet Jake or Fred, cast some CursesâŠ
Iâd like to ask the Desolation Row players to share their experience playing against the Clowns.
I can usually outshoot them so it comes down to can I force the game before they get to much control spells on the board. Also clowns cause me to skip preparation stages in noon and start jobs earlier than maybe I want to
How do you force it before they get too many control hexes down? Kidnappinâ?
Andyâs winning DR deck from the recent tournament in particular, the A-5 straight flush one, doesnât run Kidnappinâ or Ambush. I had a hard time playing with landslide* when I was testing it. I think Iâd have major problems against the clowns.
*I did not start Fred Aims in that game =_=
@Andy btw any particular reason for running Make 'Em Sweat over Faster on the Draw?
Hmm⊠I think my Control 4th Ring Shoots better than that.
The idea is to reduce the shoutout power of the opponents and hit them with double dealing as in my write up. It was a concept deck but it did work ok. Would I make changes yes, but it does work.
Iâm not saying this is a standard deck or the best it could be but it did beat some damn good players.
Verses slide I start more mobile influence and use their own deeds against them. I can also dump shootout actions as Iâll still beat them in a shootout.
1 Like